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Historically inaccurate and unsourced, does not look like any lion in use by the Norwegian royal family or government. Fry1989eh?16:59, 2 July 2013 (UTC)reply
If this file is deleted, File:Royal Standard of Norway.svg should be deleted as well - likewise historically inaccurate and unsourced, and it has the same uploader (Ssolbergj). Alternatively it may be reverted to the september 2007 version, which has a stated source. BjørnN (talk) 19:06, 2 July 2013 (UTC)reply
Strong keep, Fry has yet to show any source for the other flag. And he has shown a incredibly bellicose attitude borderline edit warring on nb.wiki. Profoss (talk) 20:05, 2 July 2013 (UTC)reply
Roede has shown a lot of sources which supports this flag as the actual flag. And you are arguing with people who live a short jog from the palace where the actual flag is flown. I haven't seen a single source supporting your claim, only mentioning "plenty of sources" does not mean they actually exists. And why did Roede have to go through a cumbersome OTRS process to prove that he is indeed the person behind the image. Do I have to do the same for all the SVG location maps I've made over the years...? Profoss (talk) 20:35, 2 July 2013 (UTC)reply
Neither Roede's file or this one look anything like the real thing. This version in particular looks like a child drew it. The real thing is far more detailed, even according to Roede's own sources. The other file may not be identical, but it's miles closer to reality. And OTRS is not as cumbersome as Profoss would suggest, I was able to get through it in about a day and a half for a file I uploaded which needed permission. Fry1989eh?01:58, 3 July 2013 (UTC)reply
I still don't see any sources that show that File:Royal Standard of Norway.svg is closer to the original, and that's because it's a fantasy product. For your information, a Canadian (pretty far from where this flag is used) claiming that the other "does not look anything like the real thing" is not a valid source. Anyway, files are deleted because of copyright violations, not if they don't look exactly like the real version, so I guess your prefered version can be kept as well. Haakon K (talk) 08:11, 5 July 2013 (UTC)reply
Oh here it comes, the old "You're not from here, so you couldn't possibly know our ways/customs/laws/flags/whatever else" racist diatribe. People from all over the world are perfectly capable of educating themselves about another country's affairs. Your statement is the irrelevant cry of the desperate. Fry1989eh?16:18, 5 July 2013 (UTC)reply
Well, you haven't put forward a single shred of evidence for the other flag being an actual flag, and btw, I'm still curious why Roede had to go through a OTRS and I have never had to do that with my location maps. Profoss (talk) 07:45, 8 July 2013 (UTC)reply
One of the oldest known versions of the Norwegian Royal LionI have asked about the flags used by the royal family before the present flag, but so far with no reply. Its only a few days ago and I don't expect an answer in several weeks. The present flag and its history is although available from several sources. Older versions of the lion can differ substantially from the stylish lion used today, like this image from an old sailors home at Veiholmen at Nordmøre on the Norwegian coastline. And of course then you have this one. I think it would be most useful if Roede and other editors from the Norwegian Wikipedia community could document the history and changes of the Norwegian flag. Jeblad (talk) 17:46, 8 July 2013 (UTC)reply
From the supplier of official flags; Norsk Flaggfabrikk: Stolte norske øyeblikk (Norwegian, but just scroll down to the end of the brochure) This page should be fairly easy to understand for someone that don't speak Norwegian.
From the national archives; Arkivverket: 190 år med rødt, hvitt og blått! (Norwegian, note the seal on the first page as the lion is shown to the left. Colors on the flag is known to be gold with a silver axe on a red background.)
It seems like the original drawings for the flag from 1906 is at w:no:Norsk Folkemuseum, and they probably got there from the factory that made that forst flag. This is according to what Roede says, and he should know this kind of stuff. Jeblad (talk) 19:08, 8 July 2013 (UTC)reply
Well, where? I haven't seen any, so please do repeat those sources. Cause I'm curious just how I have managed to reject sources I haven't seen. Profoss (talk) 06:07, 12 July 2013 (UTC)reply
Seal of duchess Ingegjørg Håkonsdatter
Sorry, Jeblad, your file:Hertuginne Ingebjørg Haakonsdatter PI XXI 3.jpg shows the Swedish Bjälbo or Folkunge lion, the arms of her husband, duke Erik Magnusson av Södermanland. Her great coat of arms (right) shows banners with the lions of both kingdoms as well as the helms and crests traditionally used for the respectiv arms. You are right to argue that details of the royal standards may have varied during these 108 years. That depends on the techniques used for manufacturing them, whether the lion is painted, appliquéed or sewn in as a piece of yellow fabric. Painted or embroidered lions will allow for more detail than mere fabric. The basic fact is that royal flags have always been patterned on the official design by Eilif Peterssen. The flag plates in encyclopedias and flag books are very enlightening. They always show a flag with the lion outlined, but with few details. The eye and ear is always outlined, as well as some detail of the mane and crown. A very good example is the flag plate in Hvem-hva-hvor from 1946, published by Aftenposten, or the link to Skikk og bruk that I added to the English article on the royal standard. Some links get their illustrations from Flags of the World. The royal banner shown on that website is certainly based on flag books depicting Peterssen's version, but the lion by Željko Heimer has a very stooped posture, unlike Peterssens. Your link to Norsk Flaggfabrikk is the most convincing proof that my file Kongeflagg.png based on Peterssen is acceptable. They claim to be suppliers to the royal court, and in that case their illustrations confirm what all Norwegian contributors to this discussion have maintained - that Peterssen is the source to be trusted. Definitely not the fanciful, shaggy lion from the Danish encyclopedia. That is of course a very good drawing, very appealing and seductive. No wonder it became so popular in Wikipedia articles after it was uploaded to Commons. But its dainty curls are too frivolous and lack the austerity of Peterssens official drawing.
By the way, the drawings by Peterssen in the collections of Norsk Folkemuseum do no depict the royal flag, but the "Riksbanner" used during the coronation in 1906, and now exhibited (I believe) among other regalia in Erkebispegården, Trondheim. The central coat of arms embroidered on the red fabric is depicted here: [1]. I don't know where the original drawing for the coat of arms is located, I only know the printed version from the Lovtidende and from later articles on Norwegian heraldry. There may be no original drawing for the flag as such. In the resolution of 14 December 1905 there is only the blazon, no drawing. Then followed the royal resolution of 30 December, which defines the coat af arms both by description and drawing - Peterssens design. My guess is that royal standards were manufactured with the Peterssen drawing as the pattern, and that it was not necessary to make a specific flag drawing. A last comment: the link to Norsk Folkemuseum shows its present loge, based on coins from the 17th century. That logo from 1990 is my own work. Greetings to all from Lars Roede (talk) 21:37, 8 July 2013 (UTC)reply
I forgot to add that the file in question, Royal Standard of Norway as of 19 July 2009.svg, seems to be one of the many designs based on Željko Heimer's drawing for Flags fo the World. Its has a poor posture, and it is a bit too stylized. But then it was not meant to be much enlarged - the images in FOTW have low resolutions. It is probably no longer to be found in any articles, certainly not in the Norwegian articles, where it has been replaced by Kongeflagg.png. Roede (talk)
Kept: Commons is not the site to settle the dispute which of our media files comes closest to the Royal Standard of Norway. We can delete something if it is obviously mistaken and out of COM:SCOPE. But this is not the case here where Roede with his expert knowledge pleaded to keep this file. I would suggest, however, to extend the description of the file with the reasonings that support this design, i.e. how it is based on the design by Eilif Peterssen etc. --AFBorchert (talk) 16:08, 12 July 2013 (UTC)reply
Commons:Deletion requests/File:Royal Standard of Norway as of 19 July 2009.svg
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